By Chris Sarra and Andreas Vavvos
Introduction
This blog post presents a condensed version of an interview conducted by Andreas Vavvos with Chris Sarra, as part of a wider initiative to explore the intersections between critical realism and Indigenous knowledge. Chris Sarra, who is of Aboriginal and Italian descent, is the founder and chair of the Stronger Smarter Institute. Critical realism forms a central foundation for his work with Indigenous communities in Australia (see Sarra, 2011).
Andreas Vavvos: Chris, thank you for accepting our invitation for this interview. Just to start the conversation, how did you come across critical realism?
Chris Sarra: Sure, thank you. I was the first Aboriginal principal of Cherbourg State School in Queensland, Australia. It’s an all-Aboriginal school. At that point, there was very limited expectation and belief about the human potential of First Nations children. In fact, what we saw right across the country was that they were failing miserably. In 1985, I went to Teachers College, and that’s where I met Gary MacLennan, who helped me to see the world differently. Later, when I started writing my PhD, Gary introduced me to Roy Bhaskar. It was a special honour to be in the presence of Roy. And I think that the most powerful thing that he taught me was the notion of the concrete universal, which gave me a way to understand myself and the work that we were doing.
Andreas Vavvos: You’re using an Indigenous approach to writing your PhD. Can you say a little bit more about this approach and its methodological contribution?
Chris Sarra: I wanted to write a very serious PhD that was, in a sense, untouchable because I knew that I was writing as an Aboriginal man in a racist society. I was watching other Aboriginal academics getting picked off and I was mindful of that. And so my methodologies had to be sound. Additionally, I needed to approach this task without surrendering my identity. In that moment of writing I didn’t stop being Aboriginal. And that’s been the case everywhere I’ve gone. And again, it’s because of Roy, who’s helped us to understand these things. I’ve never had to surrender being Aboriginal to work as a school principal. So I thought it was good to be able to influence the literature in a way that I believe was positive and somewhat leading the way for other Aboriginal academics. We’ve got to be able to find a way to assert with confidence who we are as Indigenous writers and academics, and also assert who we are as academics or writers in our own own right.
Andreas Vavvos: There is an argument that you can do all this applied work that benefits your community, without engaging in what seems to be very complex and inaccessible philosophical jargon. What do you say to people who want to make a meaningful impact on their communities, but they question the relevance of emancipatory philosophy?
Chris Sarra: Let me reflect on the period post-Cherbourg. I was at the Cherbourg school for nearly seven years. And we had achieved a lot of success, as attendance at the school had gone from 62% to 94%. And then there were questions about what the next step for me is personally and professionally. I wanted to have a greater impact in the shortest amount of time. That’s why we set up the Stronger Smarter Institute. This caused us to have to reflect on what were the key elements of the success that we delivered at Cherbourg School. So we articulated that in a philosophical sense and that enabled us to go all around the country and to say to Aboriginal people and educators:
“Here are the overarching philosophical elements to what we’re talking about. Now, if you understand those philosophical elements and you seek to apply them locally, then we can pretty much guarantee that you will be successful.”
In this regard, critical realism underpinned a commitment to embracing the humanity of the people that we served. But it also provided us with a language to contemplate the complexity and the ontological depth. This allowed us to talk about the “baggage” students carry. When they come to school, it’s not only a tangible school bag they bring; they also carry their own personal and social complexities. So it’s recognising that there is complexity and depth to that complexity and that is worth stepping back and making time to understand so that we can apply ourselves and be better in the relationships that we cultivate.
Andreas Vavvos: And finally, are there any future plans you’d like to share with us?
Chris Sarra: For me, it’s about being able to pursue that notion of all of who we are in a sovereign sense and getting young people, our next generations, to understand what being all of who we are in our sovereign sense actually means in an authentic sense. An example I’ve spoken about in other places is a young girl who comes from a very remote part of Australia and becomes educated to the extent that she becomes a hotshot lawyer in Melbourne. But if she’s working so hard at being a hotshot lawyer, making lots of money, but she’s too busy to get home to her community for her auntie’s funeral, then she’s failed effectively and she is diminished beyond what she could be in totality. And so we want next generations to understand what the truth is about who we are in a sovereign sense, the things that make us Aboriginal. And how do we seek to sustain that through future generations and resist the forces of colonialism.
Andreas Vavvos: Thank you so much, Chris. This is a beautifully powerful way to bring the interview to a close.
References
Sarra, C. (2011). Strong and Smart–Towards a Pedagogy for Emancipation: Education for First Peoples. London: Routledge.